armed service
First of all, I’m not questioning your constitutional right to have a gun (although after reading Columbine I’m less convinced than ever that our current system is working—sure, eighteen year olds should be allowed to purchase semi-automatics at a gun show).
What I am questioning is why pastor Ken Pagano recently encouraged his flock at New Bethel Church in Louisville, KY to come to church armed.
This Saturday New Bethel is hosting an “Open Carry Celebration,” featuring videos promoting gun safety, patriotic music, a raffle—and extra security.
“As a Christian pastor I believe that without a deep-seated belief in God and firearms that this country would not be here,” Pagano told ABCNews.com. “I’m not ashamed of that fact. I’m proud of it.”
Evangelical Republicanism, otherwise known as “you can’t kill ‘em but we can” (NO to abortion and stem cell research, YES to capital punishment and war), has many adherents who confuse love of God with love of country. When patriotism = freedom and freedom = guns, you have a conservative who values the 2nd amendment. When patriotism also = Christianity, you get statements like Pagano’s.
And I get heartburn. For one thing, I know plenty of Christians who have enough crazy already, thank you, and don’t need to be attending pentecostal worship services with handguns.
Second, the whole “permissible but not beneficial” thing comes to mind. Is this really the best way to present the Gospel to lost people? I know churches are questioning the whole seeker-sensitive model, but that doesn’t mean we have to become seeker-scary.
And think about the energy New Bethel’s investing to promote, plan, and defend this event. There really wasn’t anything more Kingdom-building to do in Louisville?
Ironically, this story hit just days after George Tiller was killed for performing late-term abortions. He was shot. In a church.
We may differ on the ideal balance between church and state, but can’t we agree on separation of church and ammo?
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Jennifer Taylor
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Followers of the Prince of Peace promoting guns at a worship service is wacky – agreed.
But can you help me understand the problem you implied with someone who defends the innocent life of the pre-born while they support capital punishment for the guilty?
Just an observation that we are okay with taking some lives and not others. I totally agree that abortion is wrong, but I’m not convinced capital punishment is right.
The reality is we don’t have “real” capital punishment in this country. By which I mean that folks convicted of capital crimes will not be certainly executed. We do have folks who are sentenced to execution, and a portion of those do receive that penalty. However, we all know the odds are low.
The value of capital punishment under these conditions is troubling to me. If it were likely to be carried out, maybe it would be a deterrent, I don’t know. Then again, the likelihood of a severely compromised lifestyle doesn’t deter us from overeating (said the middle aged fat guy).
Not that it needs to be a deterrent – maybe just being a punishment would be enough. But, again, I’m troubled – once the lever is pulled, there is no possibility of repentence.
Because churches tend to attract members that are like each other and like their key staff members, churches can easily become politicized.
I am a card carrying gun nut and a Christian, but I know the difference, and I know what doesn’t belong in church.
You have picked an extreme example to illustrate what goes on in most churches to a lesser degree, but still very damaging to the church (whether the congregtaion is mostly conservative or mostly liberal).
My church is patriotic on July 4, Memorial Day, and Veterans Day. My church struggles not to endorse candidates at election time.
The tragedy is that politicization hinders the church from its mission (saving the lost who often do not share the same political values) while helping many (but not all) members feel like they “belong.” Of course, the belonging has to be to the gospel and to the gospel community, not to something else for it to be beneficial to the church.
Al makes some good points. Being a deterrent, however, is not the primary goal of capital punishment. It is primarily about justice. This is why I take offense at the comparison between a mother ending the life of her baby and the state ending the life of a murderer. They are two separate issues regardless of what some may claim is a “consistent ethic of life”.
So Jen, since you strike me a closet idealist, what would it take to convince you that capital punishment is “right”?
I just read several of your posts. Awesome stuff! Keep writing… you really made me think today!
I appreciate this post. I’ve been following this story for quite a while. I’m not sure how Jesus can be perverted in a church so badly.
As someone in the Louisville area, I can assure you that there is more important kingdom work to be done here. It’s just too bad we can’t get everyone on board.
Hi Matt,
I appreciate your perspective. My main problem with the death penalty is I don’t think it achieves the goal of justice that you state as its primary purpose.
For instance, many more convicts are killed by the state for murders of white people than for murders of black people (not coincidentally, 1/3 of all US executions take place in the southern states of FL, GA, LA, and TX). Also, an overwhelming number of death row inmates come from a poor socioeconomic background. Is that because more people from lower income brackets commit these crimes? Probably. But is it also because most of them can’t afford adequate legal counsel? Also very likely; they certainly can’t afford expert witnesses and skilled lawyers.
Therefore, the next sad statistics are not surprising: over 120 people have been convicted to Death Row and then later released because of evidence of innocence (Death Penalty Information Center), and at least 20 cases that resulted in execution had overwhelming evidence of the defendant’s innocence (National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty).
Until we come up with a system that allows disadvantaged, potentially-innocent people to truly have their day in court, I can’t say capital punishment is just.
I have no problem reconciling this hesitance with my faith. Of course, I’m not equating an innocent baby with a convicted murderer. But I do think we ought to remember that when Jesus talks about “an eye for an eye” in Matthew 5, it’s not to repeat the verse we like to pull out to justify capital punishment, it’s to expand it into a radical, only-possible-with-God kind of forgiveness. I’m not sure I’d be capable of that forgiveness if my loved one was murdered–but I’m not sure watching the murderer die would bring the true closure and healing my heart would need, either.
Jennifer,
I’m trying to put links to the Christian Standard’s adoption stories on my blog. However, when I click on 4 of the 5 articles, I am re-routed to the Standard’s homepage. It looks like I have the correct address, but it doesn’t seem to be working. Do you know if anything is wrong with the Web site, or am I doing something wrong?
The links are working for me. I’ll let the IT team know and get back to you.
It was my mistake. I found the problem and corrected it. Thanks for looking into it for me though.:)
Thanks for writing on this, Jen. I’ve been troubled the last few days over these rifts I see between various culture groups in America. (the christian right doesn’t seem to realize that a good chunk of folks are absolutely mortified by decision like this church louisville) Some good friends of mine, who grew up in the same youth group that nurtured my faith, have left the faith entirely over similar events. They’re pacifist intellectuals, prone to vegetarianism and and “community building”… pep rally barbeques at a church that do more to draw attention than to alleviate suffering or extend redemption send them running for their lives… how do we reconcile this? If they ran into an emerging church, they’d have stuck around….
Jen,
Your initial response seems to indicate that you have a problem with the possible injustices in the way capital punishment is applied (points that I will gladly concede). By your same logic it could be argued that the state should never incarcerate anyone because there are injustices in the way that the sentence of incarceration is applied. It can be reasonably inferred that capital punishment may not be unjust, but (unfortunately) can be applied unjustly.
I have never heard anyone, as you stated, make an argument from Matthew 5 concerning this matter. But a reasonable argument can be made from Genesis 9:6, “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man.” This passage gives the ageless rational for capitol punishment. Man bears the image of God; therefore the willful, malicious destruction of man is an outrage against God, to be punished by execution.
“Yes, but that is the Old Testament,” cries the modern day Christian. So what does the New Testament have to say about state sponsored executions? Romans 13:4 states, “For he [the governing authority] is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.” Swords have only one purpose – to end lives. According to the Bible, the state is acting on behalf of God when capital punishment is justly applied.
Paul is not talking in the theoretical abstract here. It hit close to home for him. In Acts 25:11 Paul said, “If, however, I am guilty of doing anything deserving death, I do not refuse to die. But if the charges brought against me by these Jews are not true, no one has the right to hand me over to them. I appeal to Caesar!” That is an odd statement for an apostle to make if capital punishment is inherently wrong.
Forgive me, but I can’t resist quoting the character Ulysses Everett McGill, “That’s not the issue Delmar. Even if that [baptism] did put you square with the Lord, the State of Mississippi’s a little more hard-nosed.”
I believe a very important distinction needs to be made between the role of the Christian and the role of the state. They are not the same and should not be confused. Christians are called by our Lord to forgive. The state has the God-ordained responsibility to bring about justice for its people and for God. The individual is not called upon to incarcerate or execute a criminal any more than the state is called upon to forgive one. Therefore, in the example you ended with, it is possible for the individual family members of a murder victim to bring closure by forgiving the murderer while the state enacts justice through capitol punishment.
Thanks for the opportunity to dialogue on this matter.
Matt
gun day at church = bad idea.
guns = fun, useful. it’s my right to own one (or a few).
abortion = wrong, no wiggle room there. yes i think it should be illegal. i’ll vote on what i think is right and wrong.
capital punishment. i just don’t know. matt presents a good argument. but i just don’t know. and i think it’s ok to not know!
Additional thoughts:
Our founding fathers (conservative Protestants)found it difficult to separate church from state (politics). We in the church today find it hard to separate state from church.
American historical themes make me think it will be hard to keep them separate for a long time to come. It’s in our philosophical / historical blood: The Declaration of Independence, Thomas Paine’s “Common Sense” (one of the worst pieces of exegesis in support of war / rebellion ever written), the religious philosophy in the Federalist Papers and other writings of the founding fathers, Manifest Destiny, American Exceptionalism, Pre-Civil War Postmillenialism, Battle Hymn of the Republic, etc.
Our challenge in the church is to be above our culture (or sub-culture as the case may be here), to be shaped by it only intentionally, purposefully, and where consistent with scripture. We can’t do that when we can’t acknowledge that we have a problem.
This was my first look at your blog, and I agree with your article. I read about the Pastor encouraging responsible gun behavior to be represented through his church, and I also felt that this was a little off-center. Legal rights to own a gun aside, I can’t imagine how gun ownership promotes Christianity. How can a gun promote the love of our enemies’ that Jesus desires? If we love our enemies, then we simply have no enemies. Guns cannot lead to any expression of love that I am aware of. I am going to follow your blog; nice entry.
-Jeremy
Matt, I 100% agree with you. I am an court system employee. I have seen many people get the death penalty, some who where later found to be not guilty through dna evidence. However there was a case that made me a true believer in the death penalty. A guy pulled an 8 year old off the streets and kept her hidden and raped her in evry way unimaginable. He let her go with this warning: If you tell your mother what happened, I will kill you and your mother. Of course the little girl told her mom. The rpist had his own mother and sisiter go and kill that girl and her mom. It took the jury less than ten minutes to enter a verdict of guilty. Thank God. By the way, the governor repealed all death verdicts and commuted them to life sentences. Too bad. The system definitely needs fixing, but there are people deserving of death. no appeal. so not pass go. it would make a lot poeple decide better. Abortion should be illegal. It’s sacrificng our children to molech which it never entered the Lord’s mind to do.
[...] today seemed an appropriate time to revisit another arena of congregational nuttiness. When I originally posted this, most people wanted to discuss my (intentionally) hyperbolic statement about the death penalty [...]
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